Tough is...

Growing up in Sydney the closest beach to my home was Maroubra Beach. Most weekends in summer, my father would take my brothers and I for a late swim and surf on Saturday afternoons. But only after we’d spend the afternoon gardening, mowing lawns and general chores around the house. Such were the shared responsibilities of an eight member family.

Back then, Maroubra was a tough working class district in the south-eastern suburbs of Sydney. For me it’s only redeeming feature was a classic Aussie beach around a kilometre or so long, with headlands at either end.

And very quickly one learnt the basic surfing etiquette - if one was a visitor, as we were, then one respected the local surfers or risked being punched out. It was pretty simple really. An unambiguous standard we never breached. The locals were that tough...

Some thirty five years later, nothing much has changed at Maroubra Beach, except for housing prices and the slow infiltration of young professionals. It’s still one tough area featuring an expansive Housing Commission estate I call Dodge City, and a fiercely parochial group of local surfers called the ‘Bra Boys. They have a legendary reputation and some signify their loyalty to the joint by having the suburb’s postcode tattooed prominently across their shoulders.

The Bra Boys have received lots of press lately due to their founder being arrested and charged with murder in 2003. Only to be cleared last week of not only murder but also manslaughter. After which 200 gang members held a wild street party to celebrate with the accused and his defence team.

It was with this local history in mind I worked around Maroubra last Sunday night. Just after midnight I accepted a radio job from South Maroubra to Coogee. As I’d recently been ripped off in the same street by a bunch of Koori runners, I locked the doors, hid the phone and warily approached the address. However the fare was a single woman waiting outside and so the job was uneventful. Still it didn’t hurt being prudent, a characteristic all cabbies must exercise.

At 1 am I accepted a radio job from a block of units in Maroubra Junction heading to Kings Cross. Initially I’d reasoned the fare may be junkies off to score in the Cross. However the sight of junkies these days around town is nowhere near as bad as it once was. Once again I slowly approached with doors locked and windows closed only to find three young fellas sitting in the gutter drinking beers. As they were obviously dressed for clubbing I allowed them to board.

As we headed off I addressed the front seat passenger, ‘What, no work today ?’. ‘Yeah’, he laughed, ‘I start at 8 am’. At one point their conversation turned to tattoos, so I asked, ‘Are you guys Maroubra Boys ?’. ‘Yeah’, well we live there’, one replied. ‘So, have you got the gang tattoo ?’. ‘What’s that ?’, he replied. ‘You know’, I said, ‘the postcode the Bra Boys have tattooed across their back’. ‘Nah’, he laughed, ‘no way are we Bra Boys, we’re Navy boys’. And so we got to discussing the case of the surfer tried for murder.

Like me, they couldn’t understand how one could prove self-defence in shooting a bloke in the head three times, whilst sitting behind the victim in a car. But the shooter did so, stating in court he wrestled the gun off the victim then took him out. Why did he do it ? Cause he believed it was either him or the victim, after the victim had indicated he was going to rape the shooter’s girlfriend.

After the ‘incident’, the shooter and his girlfriend drove to North Maroubra and dumped the body off the cliffs. It’s truly an amazing case. The accused was tried for murder but pleaded self defence. Additionally I imagine it helped his case that the victim was a total arsehole, as testified by numerous witnesses, drawing the inescapable conclusion that society had been done a favour.

Consequently, the jury emphatically agreed on self defence, taking just 90 minutes to clear the accused of all charges. Even more amazing, there’s been no signal from the Crown they intend to appeal. As a result, the Bra Boys partied long and hard into the night. Case closed.

Comments

[dee]

Hi Adrian, I grew up around that area too, but my closest beach was Coogee. I have to say that I agreed 100% with the jury - that guy was extremely bad news, friends of my son had run-ins with him and his cronies and I can well believe that he would have raped this girl if her boyfriend hadnt had the guts to prevent it. I think it was self defence - if someone threatens you, and you know that it isnt an idle threat, that he's done the same thing before, you know that you cant get protection from the police, what do you do? Run away from your home and family (leaving them open to attack); or let him rape your girlfriend - or do you decide to act whatever the consequences.

I dont normally condone shooting people, but as you said, this was a special case. Thank God the jury were obviously people of good sense. A lot of people have heaved sighs of relief - one more creep off the streets. Even the police seem to agree.

[PeterB]

Another old Coogee boy.

I had a mate who used to live in that section of Maroubra in the early 70s. I don't seem to remember it as that rough but was never really a surfer.

[me]

hey im a 16 year old girl and i hang down maroubra beach.my good friends live in lexo and i am good friends with the younger bra boys and the older ones....the boys arnt about hurting people or being hoodlems they are about maroubra they are maroubra maroubra to them is not just about the view if u walk around maroubra u wil see evict the rich all over the new apartments .MBK my brothers keeper they look out for each other and they are the most loyle bunch of boys u will ever meet.They have no respect for the police because the police have no respect for them FTP fuck the police yeah boys its not just about the view

[randwickbelle]

The surf at Maroubra was HUGE today, excellent view from the the bus to Eastgardens.
Life is not about one small suburb, are you one of those girls in white just waiting until one of your 'loyle' boys make you yet another teenage mother ? I see teenage girls struggling with one of those huge strollers that seem to be the fashion, they always look stressed and confused and they are always on their own. Is that the extent of your goal in life ?
Your having yourself on, the rich don't choose live in Maroubra, too many yobs. Tthe people you are refering to are people with jobs who struggle to get a better life for themselves, people with self resepct. Collecting the dole or single mothers pension is not an acceptable way of life for most people.
I know nice hardworking people who are scared to walk down to the shop in Maroubra. No, its not all about the view, it's about personal growth, quality of life and a fair go for everyone, that is the true old spirit of Maroubra. I can see you know nothing about that.

[lexo gurl at heart]

I used to live in lexo - lexington place in South Maroubra - and I dont think anyone has a right to say anything about the Bra boys or Lexo boys unless they have lived there or know them. I came across this website and many like it while I was researching about my old high school Maroubra High. I am appalled by what many people think about Lexo. Im not saying that there wasnt any crime. But I was born and raised there. I saw many friends beaten down by police just because we were from Lexo. You have to understand what its like for people who grow up there. No one ever gives you a chance. There is nothing for kids to do! Where are they supposed to find jobs when employers take one look at your address on your resume and refuse to give you the position? I couldnt get a job in Maroubra yet I was from a good family, I had no police record and I was an A grade student. To other people it may be a bad place to live but the closeness of the community was something that I will never forget. Our neighbours were always looking out for one another. Yes, Lexo is full of housing commission houses and I lived in one. But my mother and the parents of my friends worked very hard for little. What we lacked in financial matters and respect was made up with loyalty for one another. When society beats you down, its a struggle everyday especially in a place like Lexo. WHen will the sterotyping stop? I am not a single mother and I am not a dole bludger. I actually did graduate from high school with top marks and am now studying law at uni. I am proud of where I come from. Life in Lexo is hard for everyone. But instead of bad mouthing the place and its gangs we need to help out. Improve the way of life. The police dont do anything, neither does the government. SO who is it up to? Me? Society? You obviously care about what happens in Sth Maroubra or you would not waste your time reading this....

[chantelle]

My brother and my boyfriend are members of the Bra Boys. Growing up in Sth Maroubra is hard. I agree with "lexo gurl at heart". Finding yourself is hard with sterotypes from people who dont even know you. Not all of us are single mothers or dole bludgers. Not all of us live in Housing Commission. But in the end, no matter how many people hate on us, sterotype us, or point their snobby noses away from us and look down on us, we will always have what they dont. Loyalty. Despite the bad press coverage of us youths of Maroubra, we will always have each other. Our support system is something that we would never take for granted...and I suppose we should thank all those people with their opinionated views because without their disapproval and spite, we would never have any reason to depend on us and only us.

[bronte boy]

so what ? who cares ? big deal ?

[no longer in the bra]

hi, Im good friends with Oreni(Reni)Maitua and john sutton (bulldogs and souths players) also bra boyz. I have noticed they have been doing the bra boyz signal of holding their forarms when they score a try or in Reni's Case doing the Bra hand signal whilst posing with the NRL premiership trophy. This was a hot topic with the press over the last few weeks. One reporter questioning Reni if he has a Bra Boy tattoo on his stomach which he denied. Reni! Represent! Im not a Bra boy myself but I have learned over the years! If you dont go looking for trouble, you wont get trouble, just go to the beach on a hot summers day, dont cut in on them, dont surf the North Side and there will be no issues this summer! Even walking past them out the front of the fish and chip shop, its not intimidating. But if you walked past a young group of Lebbos, its a different story, i know its contorversial but its true being a victim of a group bashing from about 10 of em just cause they were bored, came up from behind and did the damage!

[LEXO IS A HOLE]

Lexo has the name it has cause of all the crap that has/is going on.
Dont tell me police and employers pick on you for no reason, they would of had grudges from somewhere. Lexo is always the VICTIM!! Its the victim cause its full of doll bludgers that couldnt be bothered getting a job. What would a Lexo Bra boy rather do. Work a full 40 hour week or surf everyday and get the dole????
Im sick of hearing that " im the victim" speach.

[Shawn D]

If your sick of hearing the "im the victim" speech "LEXO IS A HOLE", dont listen. Why not do something else such as..learning how to spell for instance. By the way, are you from 'Lexo' yourself? Maybe you would like to write where you are from and what a sheltered life you have led to make you so ignorant of the real world. Talk it up mate..

[BONDI BOY]

BONDI BOYZ 4 LYF

[Maroubra friend]

obviously it is a trend or some kind of new fashion for the 'Maroubra Boys'to be talked about so much. The Papers, The News and it goes on! 'Bra Boys' will always be popular and there will always be someone to disagree and debate against it (HATERS). Im sorry, but im not with you "Haters".
Some of the Maroubra boys should not have any involvement or tattoo to signafy there part of the crew. They are the ones that give the "Bra Boys" their bad name, they are the ones that cause all the trouble! And they are mainly part of Lexo'!
Ofcourse the younger ones get into mischief, especially when they are part of a large group. But wait - give them a name and somethings up (as coppa's think)...
Like they have said "they are a group of friends who respect one an other and theyre beautiful surroundings", so just leave them alone and no troubles...Easy as that!

[Shotties]

There are good Bra boys and there are bad. I'm not from maroubra, I'm from marrickville, but I'm out there almost every morning.

While I'm out there I always see two faces of the Bra Boys, especially in the groms. There are the little kids out there who love surfing and froth on every wave, and theres the others who try and call everybody off a waves even at a young age, will paddle inside, snake and drop in and yet scream and curse till they turn blue.

There are also the elders who recognise me and are friendly and those who I rarely see who are pricks and refuse to just let me surf in peace, insisting that despite the fact Im always out there, I will never get any kind of easy ride because I don't live in maroubra.

I wish I could see more of the frothing groms but sadly, the bad often outweighs the good.

[local]

Yeh I totally agree with ‘shorties’, there are good Bra Boys and Bad, but mostly good (top blokes). I know a few of them, I’ve been a local in Maroubra for about 3 years, and I surf every day. I really think most of the boys are top blokes and what not, their just like every other bloke out there in regards to the fact that they posses no distinguishing feature of which no one else has. When it comes to surfing though the comment above posted by 'no longer in the bra' which stipulates 'don’t surf the North Side and there will be no issues this summer!' shits me to tears!! The beach belongs to all locals as much as any other local. It also belongs to the hole fucking population on the planet equally to each individual. However I can understand the argument for locals priority but that is another story, and with that aside, the only problem I have with the bra boys, and I would say it is only a few of them, is that if they think they own a part of the beach, i.e. the ‘north end’, then they should really grow up!!! I along with every other surfer own it as much as they do and will surf it as much as I desire, and so should everyone. If they wona punch someone’s lights out for it then all that says is something about that individual bra boys (and all who support him) character, in the moral sense. I believe a man is defined by his actions. So what type of men are you? Good men, or fuck wits? Furthermore, if they really do think they should/do own the north end then I have a proposal for the all such bra boys. If you want the north end, then maybe if enough non-bra boys can get together and agree on this, you can have the north end, however only under the condition; that you do not, under any circumstances surf on any other part of the beach. That includes south end and middle. I think this is only fair. Thus you will have no one bothering you, and no one will be bothered by you. If you boys don’t agree with this then your contradicting yourselves… (i dont really posit this as an actual proposal, but simply put it forth to explicate the stupidy of someone/group thinking they can 'own' part of a beach)

[Skuzz]

I've lived at Maroubra for thirty five years. I remember before the Bra boys there was a gang called the M.R.A. (The Maroubra Republican Army) What a bunch of thick heads those morons were. They'd fight with "abo's" "Wogs" and anyone else they disliked whether they were from Maroubra or not. The Bra Boys have proven much smarter, they have assimilated with aboriginals and ethnics. I can honestly say that not only have I never had any trouble with the Bra boys. I have never even seen trouble. I take my daughter for a swim down north end and yes I see a lot of them, but mostly older ones down their enjoying the day with their kids. If it wasn't for their 2035 tatts, youd never know they were Bra boys at all.

[Skuzz]

As for Lexo... I went to Maroubra Bay High and almost everyone from lexo and the houso's went there. Being a wog in Maroubra in the 70's was not a safe thing to be. But if anyone ever called me one in front of the lexo boys, it was all I could do to stop them from killing the offender. They were a loyal bunch and good friends. I haven't been there for a few years, but I guess it hasn't changed much. never judge a book by it's cover

[sos]

my boyfriend lives in lexo and is a lexo boy i just have to say that they are not bad people all they do is they like to hung out with there mates and have a bit of fun just like everyone else and the people that have trouble with them are the people who say things to them and and tell them to fuck off and stuff like that WOULD YOU LIKE BEING TOLD TO FUCK OFF? if people just left them alone there would be a lot less trouble and as for having jobs some of them do have jobs not all of them but there are people in every area that dont have jobs so dont just put shit on lexo

[kags]

To Daza from redsands.Talks cheap.Come down to bay pub one night sort out ya dramas dont know why boys surfn redsands,joints a fukn dive

[nulla local]

today after school mne n my mates went to ride our skateboards around cronulal when aboput 50 lebos or so rocked up walking down to north cronulla.. we knew this would happen after the lifeguards got bashed so we were keen on fights.. after 15 minutes about 200 aussies rocked up and they ddint say one think.. this big cunt walke dup and just cracke dthis cunt and droppe dhim one hit.. it sparked a massive brawl and while fighting i got in on it a little bit after i saw my mate get king hit by a dirty lebo.. i got down there after 15 minutes of fighting i was so buggered and i realised around me everyone had bra boy tatoos.. i respect the bra locals so much now.. they are the biggest tough cunts.. one blowe i saw had about 5 lebo on him and he kicked the shit out of everyone of them,. i respect you bra boys for helping nulla and us aussies...

[F-Troop]

Maroubra? Hard? You're having a laugh, you mugs. Think you're fucking hard beating up Asian shopkeepers down in that Lexo shithole? Whinging about your lot? "There's nothing for kids to do!" you say? What about playing on the beach, you mugs. It's most kids' dream. Got it all haven't you, the sun, the sea, the sand, and all you can do is jack up and fuck up. Then blame every other cunt on the planet apart from yourselves, with all your platitudes and bollocks about loyalty. They should fuck you all off to Mt. Druitt where you belong.

Millwall Bushwackas, Chelsea Headhunters and West Ham ICF would tear through the lot of you posing cunts like a dose of salts. Maroubra would look like fucking Beirut. Then they'd tear into those cunts in Lakemba and burn the fucking gaff. Yoo're all a bunch of fucking two-bob mouth merchants the lot of you. I'd love stick the fucking lot of you in the middle of the North Peckham estate - a proper fucking London council estate - and see how long you last. The biggest cunt would get it first. They wouldn't fuck around with knives or guns, they'd just dowse the cunt in petrol and set him on fire.

A 30-strong Millwall firm would run 200 of you cunts up and down the beach all day long, you mugs. Enjoy your day out at the beach, girls.

[marky]

F-Troop take your bullshit comments elsewhere.

nulla local you hit it on the head. Lebbos have got to realise there still a fuckn minority. I respect the bra boys because they don't give you shit unless you give them shit which is what a true "community" is all about not just going around starting fucking trouble like these dumb lebbo want to be gangsters i rekn ship them to the fucking bronx i bet theyll change there mind about wanting to be australian

[marc]

F-troop you are a fuckin wanker bud ! Go back to Pommyland you cretin , dreamer you shouldnt make your bumbass com if you cant back it up you guttless loser. I know some of the Bra boys they are good loyal Aussies unlike you scumbag !!! As for these Muslim Lebo Dickheads notice how they only pick on people if they are in Lrg groups themselves what a bunch of cats they have no ticker at all - pussys !!! 2035 rules

[Bra boyz will be there in force on sunday]

Boys, dont listen to geezas wif missin teef who are upset that they cant go back to their mother country cause his two busy being a backpacker at coogee. (AKA F-troop)
Cant wait for sunday. 2035 bra will be in force. time to reclaim the land, you know what will happen? The gutless lebos will do drive bys with guns instead of getting out and going the biff.
The bra is a good beach now, u know why? Cause the bra had to fight for that right about 10 years ago with the Assyrian kings. Anyone remember that. It went for a few days non stop! you dont see them starting trouble there anymore. Unfortunatly lebs dont understand that we are a multicultural society and they have to abide by our laws, not the other way around. SUNDAY IS COMING!!

[bondi boyz]

shit on 2035 bondi for life mothafucka

[b]

"Unfortunatly lebs dont understand that we are a multicultural society and they have to abide by our laws, not the other way around."
you just contradicted yourself there. you accept that australia is a multicultural society, yet you say only aussies' rule is final. whatever happened to freedom of speech for everyone? (sorry if ive misunderstood you).

hey i understand where you all are going with lebs. i work at eastgardens and i have to see the fuckers at their prime on thursday night... (and i happen to work at the place where they ALL love to hang around...)

from what ive been reading, bra boys only fight for a reason: to defend themselves and eachother (i hope im right) -> which is good. many lebs love to pick a fight, but i dont reckon u should bash all lebs, i gotta leb friend whos alright lol

anyways, havent watched the news lately so i hope you kicked the lebs arses nonetheless...

[newcastle support]

just wanting to say good on anyone who supported the uprising today and may we all embrace in this time of need and pver power our middle eastern rivals

[marc]

Good work on Sunday at Cronulla Aussies !

[marc]

Cronulla Locals you guys did the right thing on Sunday good stuff ! K.A would be proud of you.... Bra support you fully Aussies always stick together all the way.Good guys always win in the end...Aussie flag rules .2035 p.s stay cool...

[marc]

Hello Aust Media you a bunch of ethnic arse licking scumbags ! You un - Australian bunch of wankers always take their side = FUCK YOU ALL ! You fuckin shit me how you always make Aussies out to be bad people. How you arsewipes can sleep of a night is beyond me.Ch 10 ,9 ,7 & rest suck.Dont you F-wits get it we dont want scumbags visiting our beaches (smell the coffee dickheads) = MEDIA DROPKICKS......

[Bra boyz will be there in force on sunday]

marc,
I was all for yesterday until the alcohol kicked in, its wrong to attack ambulance officers like its wrong to attack life savers. Its also wrong to attack people in an unprovocked state as what happend on the trians yesterday like its wrong for Lebs to attack us unprovoked. Whens it gonna end? Do you think it ever will? I dont! What pissed me off was the cockaroaches that trawled the streets and stabbed someone at woolaware and attacked the BRA! Gee I hope the BRA fuck em up! I honestly do!

[marc]

I love australia. It is so great to see a group of 100 wannanes fighting 1 guy. with bottles. weak as boys. weak as.

[Bra boyz will be there in force on sunday]

love the scarcasm mate....lol

[Wishiwasaleb]

I must say if the actions of yesterday are what it means to be an Australian, then I'd rather be a Leb. Going around beating up Middle Eastern people indiscriminately just because of the actions of a few other Middle Eastern people is beyond stupid, and I sare say even worse than beating up a couple of lifeguards for looking at you the wrong way. Both actions are stupid, and both actions will only lead to further stupidity from both sides. Think this is gonna stop any unprovoked attacks? Hell no, each retaliation will only provide justification for further attacks.

[its not gonna stop]

I agree with the last post! Its not gonna stop and its getting closer to 2035 so its not good to see. Im 3rd generation european from malta, i still have that european look but i live the "australian lifestyle" of beers, BBQ's and Beaches. I dont have any association with middle eastern people but will I still be targeted when i go to the beach even though I grew up and was raised in the eastern Suburbs?

[Scum]

What an absolute disgrace yesterday in cronulla.

To all you racist deadshit assholes that turned up to show "Aussie Solidarity" or whatever you pathetic spin you put on it, you are subhuman scum, the absolute dregs of society who do not represent what this country is, was or ever will be. The posts in this forum seem to find some admiration in these Bra Boys and company (maybe you should be wearing bras) for being tough. You are not tough, you are the weakest little mewling turds I've ever heard. None of you have the guts to form an opinion of your own, do a hard days work or study, or better yourself in any way. Rather, you'd just like to blame society for your perceived ills (what are they exactly, living by the beach sounds pretty good to me), hang around in dickead groups, surf, smoke weed, cause fights, get tattoos of your postcode (do you work for australia post?), get pissed to the gills, and beat up on asian shopkeeprs etc.. and other ethnic shopkeepers.

What kind of men chase a young girl into a kiosk, chant and threaten her, kick people sitting on a train etc... You're not men, you are absolute animals, weak pathetic ones...the kind of scum who used to wear brownshirts in nazi germany in the 1930's because they were too gutless to get a real life.

If i was one of those coppers yesterday, I would have taken to every one of you. Everyone knows there are problems with sections of the lebanese youth, but you lot are no better, and probably a hell of a lot worse.

You are a disgrace to you families, your forebears, your city and your country.

[Aaron]

scum? u based in San Francisco?

[Yanks passing comments doesnt work]

Too much alcohol was spilled yesterday. I mean on the floor.

[scum]

no, in Brisbane, but i've spent time in sydney (unfortunately).

I had a kebab for lunch, was delicious.

[Normal maroubra dude]

If anyone has been to a party as a youth in sydney, youll know that if Wogs wanna start fights theyll do it in a group.

Where as when theres a fight between normal aussies, youll hear " Nah nah, one on one cunt"
None of this "Yea bro, fully sic 20 on 1"shit

I live in maroubra, im not friedns with the bra boys but i know who they are. Nothing against them, but i know they dont like wogs. All this racism has been around for ages, it was only a matter of time before this shit happened.
People from the bra, i hope your hearing this,lets all make sure that the lebos/ wogs dont fuck over maroubra. I know it isnt the best place but with thoses cunts making trouble itll only get worse.

However there are some noraml Wogs, and i really do feel sorry for them, cause now they'll get targeted by 'mob mentality'. Stay indoors guys, stay in doors

[BourbonBird]

Why should normal hard-working people have to hide from these rioters? Since when did we allow the streets to be ruled by gangs and packs who would turn and run if they were ever caught on their own? As far as I'm concerned, if you've attacked a woman or child, you deserve to have the book thrown at you.

I am so disgusted by the behaviour and the words expressed and exchanged from both sides. What was once an awesome stretch of coastline drag (where I've always felt safe, even though I am of Asian bloodlines) with the most laid-back and iconic beach culture Australia has become so proud to be recognised as, has become a warzone. And for what? To see who can puff their chests bigger?

If you are part of the riots, you are perpetuating something very un-Australian.

PS. Attacking women and children, or people who are minding their own business and NOT a part of the rioting, is GUTLESS.

PS2. Great work with the writing lately, Adrian.

[Wishiwasaleb]

How stupid are some of these guys that heap praise upon the "Bra Boys" and these so called patriotic Australians for going around and beating up people that have the same complexion as some guys who have caused some trouble down at the beach. Do these same people roam the streets beating up caucasions when a horrensous crime is committed by a "real" Australian. These people are so stupid that they quote phrases such as
"Nah nah, one on one cunt" (see above), as if such words portray some sort of bravery and wisdom.

People plead to the Bra Boys to stop the lebs and wogs from taking over Maroubra, as if the Bra Boys are great pillars of the local community who selflessly devote their time to helping others. Keep in mind that these guys are (mostly) a bunch of surfer thugs with lengthy criminal records that claim the PUBLIC beach as their own simply because they like surfing there.

I propose we start a chain SMS message organizing a "stupid Aussie" bashing day, where drunken mobs roam the street looking for anyone that looks even remotely stupid, and beating them to a pulp. Stupid people is what this country needs to get rid of, not lebs and wogs.

[itsnotgonnastop]

iwishiwasaleb,

They already do that, u havnt heard of them getting in groups and beating on aussies for the past 10 years?
I was a fan of your last post but not this last one,your just rambling shit to have the last say.

As the old saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everyones got one.

No one is going to win the argument on this issue. this shouldnt be happening in the first place, lebs shouldnt be looking to fight nor should aussies, lets get on with trying to live within our communities and let the police do their jobs (a little better). Police should have more powers. If i was a cop i would be like Denzl washington in training day! AMEN TO CORRUPTION. Lucky im not a cop.lol

[i hate wogs]

(This post removed due to moronic language)

[Appalled]

I can't believe that people are tearing Aussies down after what happened in Cronulla. Why was it ok for us to suffer unprovoced abuse from the lebs for all these years? What they did in Maroubra and Brighton yesterday was 10 times worse than what happened in Cronulla yet we are copping all the flack for standing up for ourselves. What gives THEM the right to attack us for no reason? I don't believe we should be targeting all middle-eastern looking people, I know lebanese people who are fantastic and would never harm anyone or act like these 'fully sicks', but why should we let the thugs get away with their abuse towards us? It makes me sick the way they act when they are out. Look at them the wrong way and they'll gather 20 to teach you a lesson. Now everyone's screaming that Aussies are racist, but these wankers are 100 times more racist than us!

[BourbonBird]

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA. I am Australian. I am an Australian citizen, I pay taxes, I am a working mother and I have every right to state my opinion here just as much as you, unless Adrian decides that what I have to say is out of line.

How dare YOU lump people together just by the colour of their skin. Get your facts straigh when it comes to personally attacking a person.

[BourbonBird]

*straight.

[Tequila]

Bourbon is evil

[anonymous]

For all the people that talk about loyalty and growing up in an area where youth have little chance to succeed - go to Bankstown and Punchbowl - it's the same shit there. These lebs have been demonised by the media everytime something happens - yeah they're dickheads but no more than white anglo-saxons that get involved in shit like this. By the way, I don't mean all arabs or all white-Austrlians.

If things were reversed and the brawl had been say in Bankstown with a lebanese majority things would have not been the same - there would have been loads more than just 16 arrests on the day and people would be getting locked up under the new Sedition laws for sending text messages and enciting others to do violent acts.

This is a conflict were both parties are just as bad as each other and deserve the same punishment.

And this whole 'Un-Australian' thing is just bullshit. Both sides are Australians - one from Irish, British, etc. backgrounds and the other from arab ones. It's just as 'Un-Australian' to bash others in large groups (such as lifesavers) as it is to pelt rocks and bottles at ambos and cops.

For those who think that just Lebanese people are to blame - you need to get the fuck off your high horse because both sides are using the same tactics. You've got nothing over them after Sunday.

[old bondi/maroubra girl]

From 1967 - 1991 i lived in the eastern and southern suburbs. Yes crime and the bra boys and similar gangs where part of life. However it was safe to be a young girl dressed in the aussie way without car loads of yes, men of middle eastern appearance being sleezy or possibly dragging you off and committing horrible acts and as a result receiving maybe three years gaol. Most of these blokes have no self control when they see a woman who is not wrapped in a bedsheet. Well thats their excuse anyway and i dont think that is in accordance with allah. Who by the way unlike Jesus never preformed one bloody miricale.(or so history states) But you my boys on Sunday certainly did. Shame on our immigration polices, when in Rome as they say...

[Idiots]

In my opinion this whole situation is a disgrace. The bashing of the lifesavers was way out of line and it may be a fact that a fair few males, many with middle eastern heritage cause trouble in groups at suburban beaches. However, persecuting the entire middle eatern community because of the actions of a minority is pissweak.
The Bra Boys think they are rock stars in the local area and bash people for no reason. They fight one on one as long as they are winning, if not they will pile in and stomp a persons head into the ground as a group. I not saying they are all bad because i dont know them all but the majority are bad news, and more so when they are in a group. Whether it be in Maroubra or at Coogee or Bronte or in the City. Dont get me started on their so called leader who claims he only fights to defend himself and his beach. If so why does he bash people for pulling chicks he likes, or getting more waves than him?
I feel sorry for the people of Cronulla after yesterady. Its all well and good to be heros with 5000 people behind but how tough are you gonna be when your walking home from Northies by yourself at 2am and you realise a car is following you?

[Reg]

Well, ya had the right idea down there in Cronulla yesterday, but perhaps without the alcohol and racist extremists, it would have sent a clearer message. But, we all make mistakes, as everybody who is writing you off seems to forget, because they are all so perfect. Look, I just wanna know, from one of these Lebanese 'gentlemen', what exactly is their cause, and what are they fighting for. If they are the victims, as we are led to believe, then what is it that we have done to provoke them over the years. I tell ya what, I bet if Aussie gangs were marauding the streets of their home towns each weekend, and bashing kebab shop owners, theyd fucking well be shot.Any lebanese out there that can offer an informed opinion of their plight?

[Sth Maroubra local]

I have plenty of friends who are associated with the bra boys and i myself have grown up in South Maroubra/ Lexington region.

Both sides of this 'ethnic war' need to sit down and have a good look at themselves!
No violence is good, nor is it going to achieve any healthy outcome.

The Lebanese people hiding behind their religions and the 'Aussies' hiding behind the Australain and Eureka flag are making every other person who truly believes in these ideals look completey stupid.

For every person who is from neither of these waring backgrounds, PLEASE DON'T JUDGE ALL OF US.

p.s for the few who i am sure thought i was a leb, i aint, 6th generation aussie.

[Sth Maroubra local]

I have plenty of friends who are associated with the bra boys and i myself have grown up in South Maroubra/ Lexington region.

Both sides of this 'ethnic war' need to sit down and have a good look at themselves!
No violence is good, nor is it going to achieve any healthy outcome.

The Lebanese people hiding behind their religions and the 'Aussies' hiding behind the Australain and Eureka flag are making every other person who truly believes in these ideals look completey stupid.

For every person who is from neither of these waring backgrounds, PLEASE DON'T JUDGE ALL OF US.

p.s for the few who i am sure thought i was a leb, i aint, 6th generation aussie.

[PlanetJoey]

(This comment removed - author apologizes for being drunk. Fair enough)

[Reg]

Uh, Planetdipshit, are you from Lebanon?

[bra local]

my 2c:
lebs started it all off by bashing the lifeguard at cronulla. should never have happened.
what the aussies did on sunday was wrong and ironically unaustralian.
as for the lebs trashing 2035, i am appalled and disgusted. im not a bra boy, but i believe the bra boys will not let this go unnoticed. they had no right to do what they did to the bra
i hope this will all diffuse so we can return to our normal lives before someone gets seriously hurt, or dare i say, killed, which would be a disaster in itself.

[blue_balls]

Hey Bra Boyz, the world is watching... and we think you're a bunch of stupid cunts.

Personally, I think the idea of beating up Lebo gang member is great - but women, ambulance drivers, 20 on 1? Come on!

Bra Boyz = cowardly bullies.

Now fuck off!

[blue balls, get ya facts straight!]

blue balls,
you musnt be from sydney, did you just not see sunny and kobi abberton on the news condeming all the riots and violence with them also saying that they want nothing to do with it? It was cronulla that attacked ambulance drivers!
Your always going to get misinformed people running their mouths without the facts but with every nationality no matter whom you are you are always going to gets asshole in any race/religion dont you blue balls? Hmm

[zukes]

i'm not ethnic, i'm pure anglo saxon. i'm not rascist because i hate everyone equally, but fighting over a stupid beach, hah shut the fuck up. thats the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard in my live, go back home people, have something to eat and get over this whole suburban patriotism.

Attacking ambulances shame on Bra Boys you all deserve everything that you get, but on the same note Middle Eastern lads don't retaliate let everything pan out and let Karma do the Job.

The excuses for all this bullshit is "socio-economic disadvantages" Bullshit, your just making up excuses, get the fuck on with live and get a job or a hobby. this Bra boy nonsense sounds like a hectic joke but as for those middle easterns who are, and i quote from the paper "we are going to rape you, you aussie sluts."

The message is clear, get over YOURSELF you are all dickheads, fuck the lot of you, the only good people are the people that are sitting at home and doing nothing.

so what do people need to do? Get over yourselves, assimilate with the australian way, forget ownership of property, get over this whole gang bullshit, i mean come on stop trying be like the americans, fuck gang wars. just be happy your living in Australia, a fantastic country.
IF you don't like it, or if your an immigrant who doesn't like aussies then thats great why the fuck you here, go back home. Oh wait thats right you came here to escape the troubles of your home land, well we don't want that shit here.

Middle East stop being so abusive towrds women, especial aussie women, and stop abusing us aussies.

Bra boys, you stone one more ambulance and i will personal bring my pit bull down and maul the lot of you.

This whole fight and rioting is over Sterotypes, i personally hate sterotypes as they are a product of comercialist propoganda. If everyone gets over and forgets sterotyping then things wil get better.

now listen to what i've said and get over it all and shut up.

[turnip]

to those justifying the weekend's 'festivities' under the aegis of nationalism you don't know shit about pride in your community or country (generally expressed by giving back to it) - nationalism is those ambo's going to assist injured people regardless of creed - i won't put the coppers in there even though 70% of their job would be considered fairly as nationalism, the other 30% is keepin us 'good' like zukes suggested (little johnny's brilliant plan for oz... the one he gets from his pillow talk with george-dubbya?).

maybe if the coppers never showed up then it would've panned out differently - take away people's fun and they start looking for other ways to entertain & express themselves... but then again, maybe if the herd didn't start bashing people just cause they look like a-rabs then the cops wouldn't've carried on with the fun-stompin.

an isolated minority will feel ostracised by the larger group & therefore cluster with their own like for 'strength in #s', but the only way to become accepted in that larger community is to integrate, accept strangers in your area and share what you've got to offer with them (hint: bashing volunteers is not the way to do that).

yeah, and if you're looking for a new life away from somewhere (local, national or inter-) then leave the shit you escaped from back where ever the hell it was you came ...

[adolf]

i'm sorry but i just watched the news and now everything is changed.

those arabs are bashing innocent people for no reason. fuck you all you dirty arabs.

metal bars, bricks, knives, rocks, what the fuck are you doing dickheads.

everything was fine, now you arabs have started it.
You are all going to be beaten without mercy and then deported.

Fuck Off dickheads us anglos aren't the rascist ones no fucking way we are you are, you are you un assimilating violent animals. go back home to your own country you wife shunning, women raping, child beating, un assimilating scum.

i dont want to hear any of this shit like "is it cause we are lebs" No its because your animals.

you are all going to be fucked over big time.

Adolf.

[Normal maroubra dude]

Ive heard that the gang people(lebs, wogs etc) that attack maroubra that night came because somone, most likly from the bra boys... SAid somehow to a wog leader, ye come on cunt, try do it here...

Sure enough they did.

I have no idea wat the fuck is gonna happen bu, its gotta stop, what if ya hurt family members of normal people...
CAnt people just not act out violence?

I dout it, human nature right, or some bullshit.
But i remeber the days when everything was noraml, there was a bit of racism, like any multiculiual city, but everything was fine.
Now, for a long time after theses attacks, the racism is just gonna get worse.
Things arnt even this bad in the USA, they stops race riots years ago. And i say if yanks can do it, so can we.

[HANK]

Yeah I really don't get it. They want to be recognised as Lebs, the don't want to assimilate into society, they highlight their own differences, and then when we recognise the difference, they scream racism. Well you cant have both.

Another thing too, these beaches have always had gangs, the Bra Boys or whomeva, which have always been overprotective of the beaches. The locals have always let you know you're an outsider when you go to the beach, and now they scream, 'the beach is for everyone'. Bullshit, like they ever let anyone feel welcome who isn't a local.

Maybe the gangs on both sides need to heed their own words, get ova the beach and recognise you all live in Australia, you have to follow the law of the land.

[oppinionated]

i think we all need to stop and think about the coppers and ambo's out there they do a fucking dangerous job and when 50oo people wanna throw cops and ambos with rocks its taking it to the wrong level.. guys stop think and be smarter the police can be your friends use ur heads guys...

(Remainder deleted. Stupid stuff which dilutes the strength of a point already well made)

[Britboy]

(Im going on what ive heard here)

An interesting read....have to say that as a British guy living in Tokyo im hearing 2 sides of the story....EVERYTHING from word of mouth is saying that the Lebanese gangs are the ones causing the mischief...however ALL over the tv we are seeing shots of crazy white guys storming the police etc...

Have to say though its similar to what happens in some areas in UK....

Although like the guy from London said it`s a lot worse than what ive heard is happening to you bunch....Watch the anti-racist government crack down on the White citizens...then it will escalate...

BTW this link is now on several football(soccer) noticeboards in the UK (how i found it) so your opinions will be read by half of UK...

GOOD LUCK

[grow up]

Did Australia, like NZ, not go to war in 1939 in part to stop the kind of sick racism that you clowns are promoting.
Fighting unassimiliating Lebanese is one thing but you bashed your own ambulance officers.. wake up to yourselves and realise that in doing someting like that you lose any self respect or moral high ground you may feel you had.. realise that the rest of your country (and your pacific neighbours) see that as the pathetic actions of alcohol fueled bigots who seem to be trying to fit in with the bad stereo types of the Bra Boys and the other associated bad eggs from the area

[old bondi/maroubra girl]

I agree leave our ambos and police alone. But sick to death of the attitudes of these minority groups, you live here stop your snivelling, life is hard for you and me but i dont have another country to pretend is better. So bring in the two strike you fuck up you get deported rule in. No gangs of ethnic discription allowed. Stop saying no to christmas in pre schools and shopping centres. I am anglo saxon, i went to purchase a house in Auburn 15 yrs ago and was told by real estate agent that i would be hounded out of the area by lebanese muslims me being such a aussie racist didnt take his advice, wish i would have now i like many other australians we have been pushed out of areas they claim as theirs, so badly behaved lebs (and there are a lot of you)leave our beaches alone and we will stay out of Lakemba and the like. Otherwise Auswim Australia teach all Leb Muslims how to swim and point them in the direction of Mecca

[HANK]

I agree that the media paints the white yobbos as racist biggots, for which they are. But the 5000 people who turned up didn't go there to be racists. There has been years and years of tension between Lebanese youths and the rest of the community (including other Lebanese who we consider Australians).

The difference is that while our police and government have no problem telling white yobbos they're dickheads and profoundly embaressing the rest of Australia, Lebanese community leaders, police, government etc. barely say what these specific Lebanese youths do is wrong, for fear of being racist. Its not racism when thousands of citizens have been petrified of this one group of youths for years. However, it turned into racism on Sunday.

So one side of the story is highlighted, and the other side is downplayed. They're all assholes, if you beat up lifegaurds or attack ambos, you're all pathetic.

[Proud Australian]

Its real sad how they the media and politicians put a twist on it all by blaming the people rioting in Cronulla on Sunday. But these lebo gangs have been beating up on people, raping, stealing, assulting and creating havoc for years. The mentality on Sunday was of a mob we all saw it on TV, well the mentality of these lebo gangs is also of a mob and im talking everyday of the week for the past 10 years.
How about the destruction the lebo gangs have caused in the last two days it out weighs the eventS of Cronulla yet all you hear in the news are politicians saying that the police are using video footage to charge people from Sundays events in Cronulla, how about finding out which was the lebo gang banger who decided to rampage through Maroubra, Brighton or Cronulla with his gang budies.What upsets me the most is some of these Lebos hoods claiming its Lebos/Wogs against the Aussies, well I hope they would stop including "wogs" in it because all "wogs" I know a proud Australians me included.
My prediction Robert Iemma and John Howard will appologise to the lebo gangs because we are all to blame for the way these lebo gangs behave.
Put it this way they got the Bra Boys (Kobe and Suuny) appologizing today. And muslim leaders will still not accept or acknowledge that alot of there youths have alot to blame and insist that they are the victims of a racist country.
Its unbelievable.

[lad]

If anyone watched the news tonight of koby with the muslim leaders it appeared to me that the leb leaders were in fact members of the commancheros they were wearing colours.. What does this mean now is the local youths vs the leb's has the hornet nest been truly stirred i'd hope not for the locals sake

[lad]

locals vs lebs and bikies

[buddy]

it seems to me that wherever the muslims go in this world, trouble soon follows.i think it has to do with the fact that their cultural and religious beliefs conflict not only with our cultural and religious beliefs but also our everyday way of life. now i'm not condoning whats going on, but sooner or later australians are going to have to make a stand or be shat on, it may as well be now better than later. whoever let these muslims into yhis country should be charged with treason.

[WHITEY]

(moronic comment removed)

[silent majority/white minority]

growing up on the snowy mountains scheme 1960 and 1970 we had over 100 different nationalites and there was no disrespect of australian culture or racial predjudice. words like multiculturalism did not exist it happened naturally, generally people respected each other and each others beliefs. a fair go was given to all and by all as a rule. dare i say that the white australia policy was in its decline and thanks to al grasby of the immigration dept the flood gates where open to all and sundry. these people breed 'sleepers' who now infiltrated the government, media, universities and are now running the show. e.g pass marks for uni had to be dropped so new migrants had a chance to qualify. even to the point of creating meaningless jobs that require a uni degree. the new minority is now the white australian male. Australian men have in the mainstream accepted the rights of women and the changes brought about by the burning of the bra yet our male muslim immigrants dont and are not expected to either by our courts or police or plain garden variety do gooders. the flash point of last weekend has been seething for more than 30 yrs and has quietly grown momentum. whether right or wrong on the weekend is not the question the question is why and in that lies the answer. muslim parents are equally to blame for not leaving their hatreds and predjudices in their old country. they on a whole have taught no tolerance and respect for the new ways in a new country. most young leb muslims are so confused by the looks of them they dont know if they are terrorists, rappers or maybe a combination. this is not about beaches, the mentality of this group (lebs) is that they need to hate and fight someone, and this it appears is out lifestyle, they wont be happy until we have towels on our heads circumcising our young girls and blowing things up. just like in the old country. history has a way of repeating its self , look at the last 2000 yrs maybe the crusaders knew something. And the muslims have never forgotten. Most original Lebanese in Lebanon where a decent race until yes dare i say it the muslims moved in. and holy hell broke loose. Remember Beriut now they are trying the same tactics in sydney . hey australia be proud to be white and young ones of last week end you made me glad that u took your stand just watch out for the ambos women and the elderly oh yes and cops. and for all you do gooders who are bagging the guys from nulla and the bra boys. just remember when we are finally taken over by all the minorites these are probably the people you will be asking for. maintain the rage.

[Currently Overseas]

I am an Aussie currently living in the UK (So I can only go by the news reports & what i am being told from friends back home - cut me some slack if I have some info about what's happening over there wrong).

I have never lived in Maroubra but in late highschool & for about 6 years after that I lived on the Gold Coast & got to know quite a few Bra Boys.

Not having lived at Maroubra I can't claim to understand the tensions there but I do think that people should back off & leave the boys alone.

All the guys I knew were great. I don't pretend that they were perfect but not one of them ever tried to inappropriately hit on me (and if they did they took rejection with good grace) or made me feel uneasy or unsafe around them at any time. I eventually dated one of them for a while and he was an angel (and I am a high maintenance kind of girl). We've lost touch since I have been over here but I know that if I ever needed help, years later, not one of those guys would ever hesitate to come running and that is the strength of the Bra Boys - they are loyal and loyalty is something thats in very short supply in today's society.

What kind of scum bashes a lifesaver? What kind of men hassle women for not being covered from neck to knee?

There are a lot of middle eastern men over here in London and they seriously weird me out - I feel uneasy around them because of their attitudes towards women - they stare and mentally undress you (not so different to most men i know - but at least most guys are subtle about it). i am annoyed that i can't walk around in skirt without getting hassled by freaks who think i must be easy because they can see my ankles (oo - ankles!). And thats been a problem with this ethnic group back home in Oz too, not just over here.

I am not saying that it was right for us to then go around bashing people in retaliation - someone needs to be the bigger person but when tolerance has been abused as much as i understand it has, then you do have to draw a line in the sand and stand up & fight for what you believe in.

The do-gooder society can go on and on as much as they like about turning the other cheek but I am an old-testament kind of girl, so go hug a tree while I get on with it...

The real cause of the 'mob mentality' is fear.

Fear that the Australian way of life (freedom, safety etc)is being slowly eroded by 'outsiders' and that soon it will be too late to recover.

We may be afraid that we are losing our identity but many middle eastern people are struggling to accept that they are also losing their traditions and heritage as well. For the older generation it is standing by and watching the younger generation slip free of the restraints (so they crack down harder trying to prevent it), for the younger, it is not knowing what to replace that with.

Religion is a safety blanket for most people - very few people can say with complete and utter certainty that they do not believe - even suspect - that there may be a god, almost everyone believes in SOME higher power because thats their safety blanket - take a safety blanket off a 2 year old child sometime and see what happens - 2 or 22, no matter, take away the safety blanket and they are lost until they adapt to the substitute.

Fear isn't an easy emotion to live with though so it translates as rage - rage that our lifestyle is seducing some middle easterners away from tradional values, rage that we automatically think they are terrorists and for some (a VERY VERY small minority I am sure, but they will still be there somewhere)rage that they can't impose their traditional lifestyle (which they obviously feel most comfortable with) on us. (And this by the way, actually IS understandable - like so many people, we think that OUR way is so clearly the RIGHT way, but who can ever really tell? Its all about the comfort zone)

For us its rage that these people have infiltrated our society, rage that they don't immediately adopt the Aussie way of life and the aussie mindset and so it goes....

Their fear doesn't excuse their actions & our fear doesn't excuse ours. What is needed is patience and tolerance but these are so hard to grasp when emotions are running high.

I don't have the answers, i don't know if anyone does, but running round bashing people probably isn't going help unless the rouge elements of that group see it for what it was meant to be - a sign that we aren't going to take it anymore. Unfortunately, i think its highly unlikely that they will take it with any degree of sang friod, therefore, it isn't going to help.

So where does that leave us besides from asking ourselves some very hard questions?

[buddy]

just saw the news on tv. was that the bra boys hugging lebs.

[sas]

(Stupid comment removed)

[sas]

(abusive comment removed)

[Loveoneanother]

Trawling through some of these comments is quite saddening.. Violence breeds only violence..

[parra lad]

(vicious comment removed)

[glenn]

i need a kebab and a beer .

[Currently Overseas]

SAS,

I hope your comments were not ref to me in any way - because if they are, i suggest you read my post again and just incase I DIDN'T make myself clear, allow me to state, very clearly, that I do not believe that violence is going to help and that i do not feel that the situation is being handled by EITHER side with the patience and diplomacy needed.

If your comments were not directed at me then this post is probably still relevant and will be for a few other people posting here - no matter which 'side' you are on...

It is a simple statement of fact that we are dealing with 2 very different cultures - both of them old, both of them (rightfully) proud, both rich (and I am not talking $$) and both of them basically 'good'. However there will always be less desirable elements in any society or culture who will take advantage of the tolerance that our society encourages.

Doesn't matter if they are lebanese, anglo-saxon, or anything else.

I do not apologise for saying that i am uncomfortable when men leer at me - I do not dress like a slut (I am a firm believer in classic, elegant styles - I'm a pearls and cashmere girl rather then a minskirt and cheap jewelery kind of girl)I am just as offended when an anglo-saxon treats me like a piece of meat as I am when any other ethnic group does and i don't apologise for noticing that it happens less with anglo-saxons then with any other group. As a woman it is sheer self-preservation to learn to notice who or what poses a threat to my safety.

I also have difficulty with the suggestion that i am racist - my Indian boyfriend and my Saudi brother-in-law will love that....

Furthermore, you say that 'yes its true the 'lebs' did hit the lifesavers' - clearly no arguments there - 'but that doesn't mean to get 5000 drunken racists fat hairy men to smash about 400 lebo's' (NB - slight exaggeration?)I am not under ANY circumstances saying that its right - if I gave that impression then I do apologise. I trying to take a step back and analyse the reasons for these behaviours and try to understand where these reponses came from.

As long as you (and a lot fo other people posting here) remain unable to do this, you will not be able to contribute to resolving the solution - your passion regarding this issue is admirable (and understandable) but unfocused - it drags you to the same mindset as those who actually went out and commited the violence.

Stop, take a step back and read your post again - the sheer violence of your response - the rage and the indiscriminate abuse is typical of the mob violence that seems to be taking over.

When i was typing that post i was momentarily placing myself in each position, trying to understand the motivation behind each side. Remember that there are 2 sides to every story and each side has 2 different points of view - thats 4 possible angles and I do not know that any of them is 'right'. For this reason, you may find the train of thought in my last post was 'inconsistent'.

My final statement was that I didn't have the answers and I don't know if anyone does but that bashing people isn't going to solve the problem - it is however, a very strong sign that things need to change.

So we all need to ask ourselves some very tough questions - so here's one for you -

Who does more damage, the people like me who are able to take a step back and examine the problem from all angles (even if it means thinking in ways that we normally wouldn't think and pointing out motivations that we dont nessessarily experience / condone ourselves) and drawing others attentions to this?

Or the people like you who don't stop to think about what is really being said and who, in mis-guided passion, attack without clarification and without checking that it was an appropriate response?

Patience, diplomacy, tact and great delicacy are required in such a volatile situation - passion is not. I hope everyone remembers that - regardless of their race.

[marc]

Sas your a rascist unaustralian scumbag with nothing sensible to say at all go to departure sect at Mascot Airport you frootloop ! Thankyou...

[grow up]

All up there for protecting your way of life and being proud of your white australian heritage guys and girls but seriously....
Is all this crap going to go on until someone gets killed?????
Which side is going to be the first to use a gun?????
Do you like the sound of Martial Law... no going down the pub on Sunday then aye!!!!!

[BERLITZ]

De bra boys are me heroes. Dey are weally smart.

[doesnt matter]

Sunday made me embarrassed to be an aussie.. I am all for defending your local area from dickheads, and having pride in where your from.. But the acts on sunday from cronulla were un-australian.. It was embarrasing... One man, who resembled a gorilla claimed that his grandfather fouhgt for this land against the japs and thats what he is doing now.. What is he even talking about, that has nothing to do with this.. This is not a war, it is dickheads trying to show off and act hard.. Those middle eastern people who were there on sunday, were probably innocent people, wanting to enjoy a swim at the beach.. And then they get the shit kicked out of them by dickheads with a mob mentality.. It has been said that the lebs only work in gangs.. Well that is exacctly what these "aussies" did on sunday.. This is only going to get worse from now...

I am australian, and i agree that there is a percentage of dickhead lebs, who carry knifes, because they cant fight like normal people, and only work in groups.. And i cant handle this certain percentage.. However, i am smart enough to relaise that this is not all of them.. Saying that lebs bring trouble wherever they go in ridiculous and such a narrow minded way of thinking..

[turnip]

i think in a lot of these posts people are skirting around the concept of what i have heard described as white guilt. basically, you should feel guilty because you've got it easier as whitey than you would have as a migo. it's the other extreme to racism.

let's remember that racism has little to do with labels, jokes, or any other form of 'noticing the differences'. from google's define function - racism: The inherent belief in the superiority of one race over all others and thereby the right to dominance (Audre Lorde).

i don't give a fuck what the heart-bleeders say, it's one of the human brain's primary functions to notice differences and discrepencies in that which we choose to analyse (ie, anything you look at, touch, taste, listen to, smell) and that function can not be switched off, well, except ofcourse by death.

so crying that we should all sit back and not laugh at leb (or whatever) jokes is bullshit, that it causes tension. bullshit.

part of acceptance is noticing and accepting differences in culture. fuck, what better way to smooth the process than with a little bit of humour? eg: oz vs nz humour - i stood with 3 kiwi blokes at bathurst on the saturday and we ripped each other for the duration of the shootout, and had a fucken good laugh to boot.

this Proper Way To Think has been programmed into a couple of generations now, initially by a society that was as diverse as ours today but predominantly white and now graduates of the New Way to our current generation of young minds, to counter the enemy hating of nam/ww2 (can any diggers from the korean conflict educate us on measures taken by power to get the herd to 'hate the enemy' for their struggle?).

one side-effect of this is coppers in my generation being too afraid to slap the cuffs on or bust out the rubber glove on a mus-o because they might offend. fuck john. the law is meant to be above all of that shit.

if you haven't already, read the story about middle-eastern crime gangs by that a copper that was posted by that bloke the other day, fuck i can't find the link in amongst all this noise... wait... http://www.quadrant.org.au/php/archive_details_list.php?article_id=581
posted by tayf in "A Wild Night"

[Skuzz]

I just want all those nulla idiots to know that the Bra boys have NOTHING to do with your race war, we weren't there and WILL NOT be there! Maroubra is a multi cultural suburb and the Bra boys are a multi cultural group with lebanese aboriginal and islander members. We have no problem down our way with any of those people. What Koby did was the smart, mature thing to do and we at Maroubra are proud of him. If you nulla morons did the same thing, you would have saved youself a lot of hurt and pride.

[United Nations]

You people need to realize something, When you take away your religion and your faith you still eat and shit like every other human. I study religion and Political Science and this is a re accuring problem. Why cant you put you pride aside respect one another as people not as numbers of religion. Australia is mulicultral country with diversity, But when you bring your religion and faith into a country which will accept but also expect you to live their way of life. I am a citenizen coming from a country of war and i have been here for 10 years, Within saying that in my heart i know where i come from and in my heart i see my faith but we still chuck bbq's on with tinnie's all round. Im sick and tired of leb's running around using their religion as a defence barrier. HELLO you dont see Aussie's saying "If i do this Jesus will give me 72 virgins". Its time to fight the battle on your own basis and not bring up religion its always the easy way out...

[Currently Overseas]

Good grief - will you all just stop & listen to yourselves????

SAS - thank you for clarifying that you weren't ref to me earlier, i was a little offended when i thought you might have been so thanks for that.

Moving on - what the hell is wrong with you people??? ALL of you???? Stop and read everything that you are saying here - what are you actually trying to accomplish? And do you HONESTLY think that your attempts are going to be successful???

If your goal is provoking more frothing-from-the-mouth rage in your target, then I guess you are doing ok, but if you are actually trying to make a serious point though, may I politely suggest that you are all seriously deluded?

Yes you all have the right to your points of view and the right to defend them, but the violence with which you are trying to make your point totally detracts from the value of the message itself. You are degrading your own position by the agression with which you defend it!!!!

Can everyone please please please calm down !!!!???

Throwing uncalled for and unjustifiable insults are what provoked the situation in the first place - it doesn't matter anymore who started it!!!!

If little Billy jumped off a cliff, would you? (Unless you are decended from a lemming, i would hope the answer is no... if it was yes.. well... please seek help)

When you see 2 toddlers fighting in a sandpit do you only punish the one who started it??? No - you punish both to teach them that its wrong. The difference here is that we aren't kids! (It's still all about the sandpit though, funnily enough...)

Unless you have made a sincere and intelligent study of a religion, please don't comment on it as a 'clear' understanding of any religion is not only subjective (and deeply personal), its also quite difficult due to the intricate and/or incomplete (or poorly translated) nature of most 'holy books'.

My brother-in-law is muslim so i have picked up quite a lot from him (and obviously my sister) but that doesn't make me an expert on the subject, therefore, i do not presume to judge on its teachings.

My boyfriend is a Hindu (although not particularly observant, I must admit) but i am not qualified to speak on that either.

I was raised as a Christian and spent 12 years at private schools getting religion crammed down my throat 3 times a week plus church twice a week but by no means am I am expert on Christianity.

NO ONE has the right to question the validity of another person's beliefs.

Question its affect on the society that follow it IF you are capable of doing so in a rational & dispassionate manner, but don't presume to be an expert on something that you clearly know nothing about and remember that 2nd hand learning (usually hear-say & rumour) doesn't count for anything.

I stand by what i said previously about religion being a safety blanket for many people but for others it is a deeply personal belief that is an integral part of who they are so any attack on that front is deeply offensive.

I also have to say, I've been insulted by experts in my time and not once was it ever about my religion...

So - lets take the religious insults out of the discussion and see what we are left with?

You all need to chill out.

Go to the beach... have a swim... make sure you sit somewhere near a police officer (no matter what ethnic group you belong to)... listen to the sound of the waves on the sand... laugh cause you are there & I am in London freezing my a** off... and don't forget to wear sunscreen!!!!!!

(Yes mum)

[adrian]

Thanks Currently Overseas, a voice of reason and commonsense which I advise all commentors to heed, if you want opinions to be taken seriously.

Otherwise I'll be forced to close Comments as I'm getting tired of deleting stupid stuff.

Have a debate by all means, but personal abuse plus racial and religious vilification is out.

Adrian.

[doesnt matter]

EVeryone is extremely qucik to criticise the middle eastern community, but also the community in cronulla. Everyone has had there say, yet not one person, has offered constructive critisism.. Noone has said what we should do to fix this massive problem. Instead of everyone blaming each other, and wanting to fight it out, why dont we all work on a way to help this situation. obviously this problem has been building for years, and it was probably inevitable that it was going to explode, this day has come, and now we have to think and devise ways to enable us to all live together. To all enjoy the beaches, and syndey and australia as one. What about a mutlicultural day in cronulla, where all different cultural and religious leaders of sydney are invited, where awareness is built of each other. This is just an idea.. Its just getting pretty annoying hearing everyone criticise what happened, but having not one helpful or thoughtful idea on how to fix it..

[jayceon taylor]

see he deleted maroubra girls comments cuz shes gay

[Bra and Panties Boys]

Those grog-fuelled rednecks on Sunday did themselves the biggest disservice they could by attacking anybody that "vaguely" looked Middle Eastern, including women. It shows that you're no better than what you were protesting about - i.e. gangs of Lebanese thugs pack-bashing anything that moves. Having said that, 70 carloads of organised middle-eastern origin thugs rampaging through suburbs smashing anything and anyone in their way, irrespective of gender, is far worse and far more concerning. We all saw these arseholes being cuffed and lined up on the sidewalks, but why have none of them been jailed? Then I read about some white bloke from Penrith getting four months for holding a piece of pipe. While miraculously the police failed to nail any of the 70 carloads of Muslim Australians for having offensive weapons. Are they blind or are they turning a blind eye? Or were they just hopelessly outwitted?

The anger in Cronulla is understandable: these packs of arrogant middle-eastern origin scum have been getting away with their acts of sheer cowardice for years. One on one they're shit but they don't like it that way and nothing's going to change that unless the Govt. stops pussyfooting round and cracks down hard. Stop and search, order them out of their cars and if they're holding tools, bang them up for 6 months. End of. Stick them inside with the real hard men and see how long they last. They’d be crying for mummy inside two minutes.

The sad thing in all this is that the only people to have been hurt physically and psychologically are the innocent victims. A bloke putting his rubbish out; two Bangladeshi students going for a swim; that poor Muslim woman having her headdress pulled off; the white couple having a quiet Monday night pizza. So where were the so called Nulla boys on Monday night when their suburb was getting systematically destroyed? And where were the big, hard Lebanese gangs on Sunday when the Nulla locals were getting pissed up looking for a fight? Nowhere to be seen on both counts. Typical. I rest my case.

The Maroubra boys got it right. They saw that their precious suburb could be wiped out anytime the Lakemba mob wants to do it, so out they came and claimed neutrality. This was no act of cowardice. Far from it. They saw reason, the writing on the wall, so to speak, and acted accordingly.

I think the white Nulla (and Penrith) boys have got to face facts. You're out-punching your weight, lads. It's all right for you to get pissed up in your own back yard and after a ton of grog, mutual masturbation and too much sun then grow the balls to take a pop at a few innocents and the police, but I don't see you lot mobbing up in your cars, armed to the teeth, driving through Lakemba and Punchbowl causing havoc. And that’s the difference.

The sad fact is the Muslim gangs think nothing of doing this and they'll keep doing it until they are either stopped or somebody is killed. Until there is a concerted and "sensible" relentless and combined effort by the Govt., police, courts, public opinion and media to say enough is enough and harass these trouble making cunts every minute of the day, 24/7, and ensure they can't harass, they can't pack bash / rape, they can't hold weapons, they can't intimidate, they can't fucking well piss without somebody watching them, they’ll continue getting away with this shit and keep doing it.

Of course the do-gooders will up in arms screaming racism. FUCK THEM. Ignore them. It’s a problem and it has to be eradicated irrespective of race. I don’t see Asians perpetrating these crimes, nor Italian or Greek gangs, or Spanish or Slavs or Russians or English, or Uncle Tom Cobbly and all. It’s a problem specific to Lebanese Australian males between the ages of circa 14 – 25. That’s realism, not racism.

50,000 people, men women and children, marching peacefully down George street with banners protesting against Middle-Eastern gang violence on the beaches, the streets, the bars, is a far more intelligent way of airing a grievance - and more likely to get the right people to sit up and take note - than a pissed up mob of redneck wankers behaving just as disgracefully as the middle eastern perpetrators they are protesting about.

Think about it, use your heads, and get organized.

[bondi/maruobra girl]

definately well put bra and panties boys. a peacefull march yes i agree,

i grew up in the eastern suburbs and had friends from all cultural backgrounds and different faiths. all respect was given and all respect was shown. in this country of political correctness gone mad i no longer feel that i the right to express an opinion, the government has definately created an us and them climate, and yes it is definately a certain sector of young lebanese australians that the trouble is coming from.
and for all the people who have accused me of being racist...wrong my 17yrold daughter teaches in your aurban area and she is an eighth generation australian, she and i happily both accepted an invitation to the home of one of her students family home to celebrate ramadan. we happily accept our differences and sometimes have a really good laugh at some of them, however i am upset with the actions of a certain group that has forced the upheaval in my country. and if you cant accept some comments (non violeent and obscene)made about your culture then you dont have the same grit and determination to get on with as many other cultures have. they just got on with it to bring their families up to be proud of their old and new heritage and live with respect amongst each other .

[doesnt matter]

I agree with the last comments by Bra and Panties Boys.. Well said... and i fully agree!

[sas]

(Sas, like some others here, your comments 'get disappeared' due to vicious language. Find some appropiate words to express your point, then use the PREVIEW button before posting. Pretty simple really, )

[Beirut Billy]

We've had "Bra and Panties Boys" and now SAS - does that make this loser "Stockings And Suspenders"?

I can't quite figure out what you're on about, mate. Sure the Russians allegedly import cocaine and the 5T can get naughty, and the Poms like a blue but they keep it largely in-house. Unless I've been living on a different planet you don't see packs of Russian or Japanese Aussies at the beach or in bars intimidating and beating the crap out of people. The whole point of this discussion forum is about the recurring regularity of large groups of Lebanese plastic gangsters kicking shit out of Australians, and the sadly predictable response at Cronulla last Sunday.

Sure, many of those losers at Cronulla were racists, but hang on a minute, racism transends all boundaries: I'm sure most gangs of middle eastern men that do target "Skips" or white Australian men do it based on the colour of their skin too. A sacred cow with a carrot up its arse could also tell that there is definite racism directed toward Anglo Aussies by the racial slurs flung at Aussies during Monday's madness.

Some idiot told me about ten years ago that black people in the States didn't like white people and that this was a form of "inverse" racism because blacks are in a minority. FUCK RIGHT OFF! I told him, IT'S RACISM, period. There's no inverse about it and the same applies here.

Mind you I don't see a problem with the Christian Lebanese Community. Anybody care to shed any light on that one.

[F-Troop]

Tim Priest, ex-Sydney Old Bill, had it right, innit. When that Pommie loser Peter Ryan took over the force down here he effectively took away all its powers by disbanding the serious crimes units.

The middle Eastern crime syndicates were allowed to flourish, and they abide by a different set of rules, as do the Asian gangs, but the Middle eastern lot are more high profile criminal entrepeuners around Sydney. Like the east europeans, the Yardies and Asian gangs they don't abide by the same rules and laws that govern Australia. Which is why they have no respect for it whatsoever.

Give it another 5-10 years and you'll have another Paris on your hands in Sydney, with no go areas and the army having to go in. The same happened in London with the Yardies and black Ghettos.

Until the police in Sydney are given the powers to reclaim those streets and break these criminal empires (and a few skulls) it will get worse. Young and impressionable middleeastern aussie kids will continue to look up to these gangsters and want to emulate them.

On the white side I agree with that Bra and Panties dude. If you riot again this weekend, those Lakemba blokes will only come down and smash up your back yard again and probably kill someone. It's pointless. Get the numbers and lobby the Old Bill commissioner and Government and stop the traffic in george street if need be.

[Bra and Panties Boys]

F-Troop? Is this the same F-Troop Pommy idiot that posted that moronic post about fighting and bullshit last week?

If so, where did the new-found intelligence come from. I even found myself agreeing with some of what you said.